"The Fridge"

I'm in ur Honda, swappin' ur motorz
User avatar
MR Chuck
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:31 am

"The Fridge"

Postby MR Chuck » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:52 am

Somewhat of a continuation of my "Loring Bound?" thread...This is the plan to get prepared for Loring and afterwards I'll try to keep it somewhat up to date with progress of the project over the winter. I like build threads, I like sharing my work, I like getting feedback and discussing different options. Feel free to comment.

Here is a quick rundown of the general setup at the moment:
~3200lbs? (need to get on a scale)
Re-valved Bilstein HDs w/ Swift Spec-R Springs
Stock Sways
Stock wheels (17x8) w/ 255/40 V12s
Stock Diffs, bad center diff pump
ACT clutch, light flywheel (~80k on clutch/flywheel, 120k on "sore" 6spd trans)
~330whp (dynojet), 24psi by 3400rpm, 7500rpm rev limit (self-tuned)
lots of other little stuff that really isnt relevant


The ultimate plan is a well balanced SM Evo. Here are the ultimate (2-3 year) goals:
Coilovers, >10k springs all around
Class minimum weight (2720 or 2920, depending on tire width)
275 or 285 R-comps (275s if I feel like I can get well below 2920lbs to take full advantage of 200lb allowance for "narrow" tires, 285s are much easier to fit...)
Upgraded sways f/r
Built drivetrain (5spd)
closer to 400whp without much loss in spool.

These are fairly general goals and Ive pretty much got the specifics of the build in my head. Im subscribed to almost every respectable SP or SM build on the Evo boards and I have a pretty good idea of what works. I wont be spending the crazy money for alot of stuff that those guys do, but I know what the deficiencies in the setup are and will fix them. I want a car that can be stickered, yet still be able to get top 10 raw times (whether the driver will be capable is up for debate :lol:).


Right now my plan is to take care of the worst things 1st on a budget. As far as the setup is concerned...I need more roll resistance, more camber, and more grip. As far as reliability is concerned...I need to get my center diff mojo back and freshen up the tune.

Quick run-down of whats in store Pre-Loring
install 245/40 ZIIs
install camber plates, align
drill additional holes in front sway bar, replace bushings
rebuild spare center diff pump, install/bleed
boost leak test & retune for ~22psi (injectors are currently maxxed out at 24)
Install harness (thank you lucky7s!!!, I still owe you!)


Im hoping the majority of that stuff will get done before Bath on the 28th. Still got a ways to go for the ultimate goal, but I think the 3 major setup issues will be better without spending a ton of money.

Looking forward to hearing some noise from the loud pedal!
Charlie #12
2004 Infiniti G35 ESP-T

User avatar
pdool09
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:16 am
Location: Maine
Contact:

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby pdool09 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:28 am

Sounds like a good plan. You have a lot to do before Loring.

I know how that feels...
Patrick D
#173 2005 SMF Scion Tc
#113 2013 SM Scion FR-S
Sold 2013 VW Golf GTI
Sold 1992 Acura Integra

User avatar
DM
Posts: 5710
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:15 pm
Location: Freeport,ME

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby DM » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:49 am

could be worse... Mine comes like this

818-ship.jpg
818-ship.jpg (113.34 KiB) Viewed 2736 times


And I have about two weeks to get at least the frame together and running to participate with it at Loring..

Not even sure if my doctor will allow me to compete with my eye... it's healing fine, bubble is smaller but it makes it more intrusive...

818-3.jpg
818-3.jpg (123.83 KiB) Viewed 2736 times
Dan

CKT Slingshot KT100, Frankenstein RM1 Rotax DD2, 2013 Factory 5 818S

Quote for further thought:

Winston Churchill:

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery...”

User avatar
MR Chuck
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:31 am

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby MR Chuck » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:58 pm

My to-do list isnt too bad. Probably 2 days of garage time and a week or 2 of road tuning.

Im planning to rebuild the diff pump, install it, and do a boost leak test while the front bumper is off this weekend. Tires will be here Mon. Get them installed and freshen up the tune before Bath.

Im hoping to get the plates within a week or so, and I'm just hoping to get them installed, get it aligned, and mod the front sway before Loring.

question...what would be an acceptable method of having a laptop in the car during a run? If I just have a passenger hold it, is that sufficient? Or do I need to secure it somehow? Got winter plans to alleviate this problem, but the laptop is currently my only means of logging. Id love to get some tune data during some runs.
Charlie #12
2004 Infiniti G35 ESP-T

User avatar
SoloSE-R
Purveyor of unique ideas
Posts: 2366
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:12 pm
Location: Saco
Contact:

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby SoloSE-R » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:00 pm

I would suggest getting a couple pieces of industrial strength velcro or 3m Dual Lock:

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... 5642&rt=c3

and stick them on the bottom of the laptop, then stick the laptop on the carpet. I have the back of my phone case covered in dual lock so I can click it into a Ram mount for GPS and video purposes, and based on what happened when I dropped my phone on the passenger carpet I think it's safe to say a laptop similarly adhered won't go anywhere during your run. You may however break the laptop case trying to pry it from the floor if you use too much of the Dual Lock pad.
Josh
2007 Honda S2000 - Laguna Blue - B Street - TCK DA Konis/Karcepts FSB/no muffler/Hankook RS3
2005 Volvo V70R - Titanium Grey - 6MT - Stock - DD

User avatar
Rocwandrer
Posts: 7152
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:04 pm

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby Rocwandrer » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:15 pm

How long are the front end links? If they are short, the off axis forces go through the roof as you get further away from perpendicular to the bar. The bar articulation already means this is a compromise in that the end links swing off axis as the bar twists. drilling more holes closer to the center of the bar makes it stiffer, but you probably can't get away with too much.

Multi-hole bars I've handled either split the difference with some holes further and some closer and set the center point of stiffness adjustment with diameter, or smarter, use a bigger diameter still, and put the hole pattern slightly outboard of center so the end link force increase is highest at the lowest stiffness setting.

On a car that needs all 4 tires on the ground with as much load as possible to be fast, I'd suggest aiming your ultimate plan for no more than 10% of roll stiffness from bars, and then adjusting the plan as needed to keep it streetable. Contrary to popular wisdom, no need to adjust the dampers for a big change in spring stiffness if you are just keeping the roll stiffness constant but swapping bar for spring or vice versa.

User avatar
Rocwandrer
Posts: 7152
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:04 pm

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby Rocwandrer » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:19 pm

:twisted: why retune for 22 psi instead of buying bigger injectors and retuning for 24 psi?

User avatar
MR Chuck
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:31 am

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby MR Chuck » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:54 pm

Retune for 22 is temporary. I'm currently running almost 100% wastegate duty cycle in 1st and 2nd. 3rd is tuned at 24, 4th 23 or so, 5th and 6th around 21-20. I'm really just touching the maps up and changing some of the way the boost control works in hopes of less surge and jerkiness.

There are other plans that will necessitate injectors soon enough.

Lots of folks on the EVO boards have had good success with drilling the front bar. You got to pull the subframe to replace it. Probaby going to do it when I install this trans over the winter.
Last edited by MR Chuck on Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Charlie #12
2004 Infiniti G35 ESP-T

User avatar
MR Chuck
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:31 am

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby MR Chuck » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:13 am

I see what youre talking about with respect to the angle of the endlinks. But Im still going to give it a shot.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/7598925-post35.html

Looks like he's drilled about 7/8" from the original location.

Im just looking to help the crappy camber curve up front without spending a bunch of money and without having to drop the subframe.

Ultimately, Im planning to run the stiffest springs I can handle on the street w/ a stiff hollow front bar. And only replace the rear bar when that is all that is left. Got to keep that inside tire on the ground if I want to keep my diff in 1 piece.

And to expand on my last comment. 24 is about the MAX Im comfortable running on 91 oct. My CEL is also setup as a knock light. And I know I get sporadic knock (3-6 counts) and Im running fairly conservative timing w/ no EGT gauge and dont want to go too low. For reference, Ive read that its not audible until 18-20 counts. ECU pulls 1deg of timing for every 3 counts. And right now Ive got it setup to drop to wastegate pressure (~13psi) above 6 counts, mostly just to let me know in case Im not watching the light. The boost drop is a feature I may turn off. Moving through the fuel/timing maps that fast also has its drawbacks.

So really just looking to make the tune a bit more safe for flogging around cones until I pull the motor apart possibly this winter. The plans for the motor will increase flow and I know I will be out of fuel then.
Charlie #12
2004 Infiniti G35 ESP-T

User avatar
Rocwandrer
Posts: 7152
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:04 pm

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby Rocwandrer » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:37 pm

You know that the front roll displacement always equals rear roll displacement, right? Therefore an increase in rear roll stiffness of the same magnitude as at the front helps the camber curves at the front the same amount. As you probably know, the camber curves are not changing, You are just getting less deep into them because of more roll stiffness.

User avatar
MR Chuck
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:31 am

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby MR Chuck » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:46 pm

Rocwandrer wrote:You know that the front roll displacement always equals rear roll displacement, right? Therefore an increase in rear roll stiffness of the same magnitude as at the front helps the camber curves at the front the same amount.


Are you suggesting that a stiffer rear bar will provide as much benefit to front roll stiffness as a stiffer front bar?


Rocwandrer wrote:As you probably know, the camber curves are not changing, You are just getting less deep into them because of more roll stiffness.


Correct. It wont "change" until I start doing things that change the geometry.
Charlie #12
2004 Infiniti G35 ESP-T

User avatar
Rocwandrer
Posts: 7152
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:04 pm

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby Rocwandrer » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:58 pm

Of course not.

User avatar
MR Chuck
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:31 am

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby MR Chuck » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:26 am

Then Im not sure I understand your language. :?
Charlie #12
2004 Infiniti G35 ESP-T

User avatar
solfly
Posts: 4113
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: maine
Contact:

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby solfly » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:21 am

MR Chuck wrote:question...what would be an acceptable method of having a laptop in the car during a run? If I just have a passenger hold it, is that sufficient? Or do I need to secure it somehow? Got winter plans to alleviate this problem, but the laptop is currently my only means of logging. Id love to get some tune data during some runs.


Image
1988 Honda Civic STD Hatch

www.facebook.com/88shoe

User avatar
Rocwandrer
Posts: 7152
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:04 pm

Re: "The Fridge"

Postby Rocwandrer » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:45 am

MR Chuck wrote:Then Im not sure I understand your language. :?


It sounds to me like you have grip loss at the front from camber loss in roll, and thought a stiffer front bar would help that. It will, but it will also shift roll stiffness bias forward, thereby shifting grip bias rearward.

The change in body roll is roughly proportionate to the change in roll stiffness. If you had too much roll and too much understeer, stiffer rear springs would help with both problems, for example, because total roll is always the same front and rear, and shifting the roll stiffness bias rearward increases front grip.


Return to “Project and Technical Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest