Brake pad questions

I'm in ur Honda, swappin' ur motorz
User avatar
Rocwandrer
Posts: 7152
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:04 pm

Re: Brake pad questions

Postby Rocwandrer » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:05 pm

kustomizm wrote:I was contemplating the EBC Yellowstuff but Strano recommended the Ferodo. He said its a good mix between street and track. I still average 7k miles a year. So street is important too. Passed on the lines. When these are dead maybe I will try the HP+.



How much time do you spend at the track? Which tracks?

kustomizm
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:37 pm

Re: Brake pad questions

Postby kustomizm » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:35 pm

Haha, Bill Dodge track. I say track I mean parking lot.
Derek R. #30 Silver 2011 Ford Mustang GT

User avatar
Rocwandrer
Posts: 7152
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:04 pm

Re: Brake pad questions

Postby Rocwandrer » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:58 pm

kustomizm wrote:Haha, Bill Dodge track. I say track I mean parking lot.


Did the people making recommendations to you about brake pads know what you meant? Looks like you bought a pad that is intended to be a good compromise between lighter track use and street use, that is not suggested by the manufacturer for street use. You are likely getting high heat tolerance you don't need in exchange for poorer cold behavior.

For autocross use, you want a feel and friction coefficient you like, and you want that to be consistent from room temp up to something above what is generated in a highway panic stop.

Track use is totally different. At a race track, high heat tolerance is critical, and wear/friction coefficient when cold is almost irrelevant. That highway panic stop temperature is where the graph starts for grip vs temperature. Some track pads give decent braking cold, but via an abrasion mode which is murderous to rotors (which doesn't matter because the brakes work cold, and cold application is infrequent). Some just don't really work cold, or give horrible feedback/feel while warming up. Most have very steep friction vs temperature curves at low temps in exchange for consistent and higher fade limits and/or progressive fade.

An excellent street pad is always a decent autocross pad. An excellent autocross pad is usually a decent street pad. Any pad that is a good or better track pad is going to be a lousy autocross pad (at least on a powerful car). Most excellent track pads make downright horrible/dangerous street/autocross pads.

kustomizm
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:37 pm

Re: Brake pad questions

Postby kustomizm » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:50 pm

I explained to Sam Strano what I intended to use them for. Its what he used in several instances on several cars. He knows what class I run in for autox. We will try it and see.
Derek R. #30 Silver 2011 Ford Mustang GT

benauto
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:28 pm
Location: bethel maine

Re: Brake pad questions

Postby benauto » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:46 pm

Have to toss in my 2 cents ! Years back now.... We ran our old GTI with Hawk Blk and the cheapest softest rotors we could find. We would (just like saabman said...its the key.) ride those brakes all the way to start and then some before we ran. Always ran a good dot 4 STREET fluid. Stay away from any race or special fluid .You will never get the brakes warm or hot enough to need....special fluid. Next never put dot 3 in a 4 system EVER ! Basically treat a 4 system as one made with silicone based rubber and dot 3 as a kerosene based system....... 4 can't hurt 3 but 3 with eat away at 4 !
As a Spec Miata racer and still at heart an autocrosser.....buy a good set of hawk pads and $10 rotors ! Let the pads tear into those rotors. Put some good clear on the wheels and let the dust and metal filings begin !
As far as ABS ...just a different threshold of braking.

Have a great season all ! Might see you out there with the old GTI and blk hawks latter this season !
05 SM Spec Miata LTD Racing.... Home of the Blue Plate special !

kustomizm
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:37 pm

Re: Brake pad questions

Postby kustomizm » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:49 am

I put in the Ferodo pads but have not done the fluid yet. I feel there is a slight increase in pedal travel vs stock pads. I think its the fluid hopefully. The pads are good but the first stop on them cold is farther than I thought it would be. Once they warm up I think it will be a good pad. I may have to drag them to the start to get them to work. I dobt really want to get another set but unsure. I bedded them in with a bunch of stops and they really got hot and smoky. Again the softish pedal will hopefully be fixed with new fluid.
Derek R. #30 Silver 2011 Ford Mustang GT

User avatar
Rocwandrer
Posts: 7152
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:04 pm

Re: Brake pad questions

Postby Rocwandrer » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:04 am

kustomizm wrote:I put in the Ferodo pads but have not done the fluid yet. I feel there is a slight increase in pedal travel vs stock pads. I think its the fluid hopefully. The pads are good but the first stop on them cold is farther than I thought it would be. Once they warm up I think it will be a good pad. I may have to drag them to the start to get them to work. I dobt really want to get another set but unsure. I bedded them in with a bunch of stops and they really got hot and smoky. Again the softish pedal will hopefully be fixed with new fluid.


The temperature profile will not improve as the pads season (with record-grooved rotors helping decrease the area temporarily, it might even get worse as they break in).

The pedal firmness should improve or stay the same with new fluid, but the step-wise drop in pedal firmness with the pad change isn't the fluid, obviously. If you used the old, slightly record-grooved rotors, the pedal firmness will (in my experience) improve dramatically as the pads wear to the shape of the rotor grooves.

User avatar
MR Chuck
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:31 am

Re: Brake pad questions

Postby MR Chuck » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:08 am

My HP+ are turning out to be awesome so far. I havent bed them in yet due to the fact that Im still babying the car and dont want to do back to back accel periods on the new clutch just yet.

They have definitely gained some grabbiness over the last 2 days. And now Im starting to get noise. I dont really care about the noise, but I do wonder how it is going change after a good bedding.

Happy with the purchase so far. :thumbsup:
Charlie #12
2004 Infiniti G35 ESP-T

User avatar
pdool09
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:16 am
Location: Maine
Contact:

Re: Brake pad questions

Postby pdool09 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:15 am

I did EBCs (Yellows) a week ago, no issues, good grab. I'm happy
Patrick D
#173 2005 SMF Scion Tc
#113 2013 SM Scion FR-S
Sold 2013 VW Golf GTI
Sold 1992 Acura Integra

User avatar
Rocwandrer
Posts: 7152
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:04 pm

Re: Brake pad questions

Postby Rocwandrer » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:41 am

I'll keep it going :D I did EBC greenstuffs last week. I like the greens for light cars. silent. rotor friendly. last 25-30k under abusive conditions. dust like crazy, but it rinses off. cheap-ish. come with a break in coating.

I did stoptech street performance pads last week. No impressions yet.

kustomizm
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:37 pm

Re: Brake pad questions

Postby kustomizm » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:43 pm

I think I got a little to crazy on bed in. Considering the rotors are blue and the last few stops were smoky from the pads. I guess the idea is to get them rather warm but not lava hot. Mine was lava hot. I think I glazed them. Now to take everything apart and scuff everything and re bed them.
Derek R. #30 Silver 2011 Ford Mustang GT


Return to “Project and Technical Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests